Bite the Bullet, Well I guess I Did!!!!

After running for a full year with the 5.3 vortec, I broke the following. Dana 35 Driverside axle. Dana 30 Driverside Axle. Wierd noises comming from NP231. Bent Both front fenders from being low on 35's. Lost the Electric Fan twice, Mounts suck (KEEP STOCK FAN IF YOU CONVERT). Bent the tie rod.

AS OF TODAY, NO MORE!!!! I'M Bitting the Bullet.

Waiting to be installed in my garage, AEV Nth Degree full belly up 6" Lift. G2 Dana44 Front & Rear axles w/ 30 spline Chrommoly Shafts & Detroit Tru Trac Lockers. Terraflex Disk Brake Conversion. Atlas 2 2spd Transfercase. Metal Cloak Tube Front & Rear fenders w/ Rock Sliders. Currie Heavy Duty Tie Rod Assembly.

I will have it all in by the 1st week of Sept, before the labor day run. With any luck @ all.

Any info I can give anyone about the installs, let me know. I can tell you right know the Nth Degree Lift is very involved. 14 Boxes showed up in that kit alone.  
ohhhh!! sooo!!! AWESOME

You're making the same mistake I made. Loose the Currie HD steering!

Don't get me wrong. It's really nice stuff and it's a big improvement over stock as far as strength is concerned. But, it does nothing to fix the problems created by lifting the TJ over 2-3 inches.

I'm running Nth's suspension and it works great. You'll love it. But your steering can be much improved upon. I ran the Currie HD steering for about a year and just recently ditched it (for sale btw) for a cross-over setup. Wow, what a difference.

I now have totally tight and totally responsive steering with no hint of looseness or deadness that is so common with TJ steering. And I can even run it with no steering shock and not a hint of shimmy or wobble, ever! My Currie setup always had the ol dead spot between 11 and 1 that everyone talks about.

I replaced both of my knuckles with Reid Racing D30/D44 conversion knuckles so that I could run locking hubs, big Chevy brakes and provide me with a passenger's side steering arm for my new cross-over steering. All, a huge improvement.

When you say Tera disc brake conversion, I'm guessing you're talking rear. That too is going to be a disappointment with regard to overall braking performance. If you want to improve your braking, you have to concentrate on the front. Talk to the Rubicon guys. They have rear disc and they still say their brakes suck. I have a friend with a Rubicon and 33s, I have 35" tires on mine. We have driven side by side many times and tested who can stop faster. With my Chevy brakes and stock rear drums, it's not even close. He's saving his money for Reid knuckles needless to say.

But you can run a cross-over setup with a Tera knuckle and still use all your original TJ outers. The guy that built my custom Tie Rod, Drag Link, and Track Bar uses the Tera knuckle all the time. As part of the cross-over setup, the Track Bar axle bracket is remade and moves the Track Bar up about 4". This way it stays parallel with the new Drag Link location on the new steering arm. Now both my Drag Link and Track Bar are almost completely flat. I am still using my Nth Track Bar bracket/Brace on the frame side with the dropped pitman.

With my Nth suspension and cross-over steering, my TJ truly does drive fabulously on the street.

When I was at Easter Jeep Safari, I spoke with Jim Frens, the owner and designer of Nth Degree products before he merged with AEV. He had his Orange Papaya TJ there and he had the full Nth suspension on it. But he too had a custom Track Bar and cross-over steering.

The Tera knuckle only costs about $350 and I paid $500 for the rest of the completely installed cross-over setup. I paid $400 for my Currie HD steering. Hmm.

Don't do it! Step up to cross-over. It is totally worth it!

Oh, and get a UniBit/Step Drill for drilling the holes in the frame and the axle brackets when installing your Nth suspension. It saves a ton of time and effort.  

I wheel with Jim & the Boys at AEV, I only live 60 miles from their shop. Jim was the one who recommended the Currie HD Kit, and Advised me to stay away from any other type( I.E. High Steering) as no one has really perfected a version for the TJ.

Right now I'm running the stock set up on with a 4 inch & 35's, and when all is tight, I don't have a dead spot. I did once, but found that the nut on the pitman arm was not tight.

I might regret it, but the currie is already here, and I only have a 2 week build window.

Aev has changed the old Nth kit somewhat, and now the brackets have a weld in option. On the lifts that they perform, they now weld the brackets in. This is the way I went, and welded the brackets in last night.  
ohhhh!! sooo!!! AWESOME

the only reason I think jim would have for saying to use the currie, is the lack of aftermarket support for correct length/location axle end.

I've got some things happening now to fix those issues on mine..

just raising and shorting the track bar to fit higher isn't the right way to go. the axle end needs to goto the knuckle... I'll have some pics of what I'm doing soon..

I can't stand the haltenberger steering... every bump in the road changes the toe.

you can't get better steering geometry than this... the problem is the relationship of the track bar and drag link.



you can get rid of the bumpsteer easy enough, but to correct the other issues the track bar needs to be loooooooooooonger.  
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Good job killing the 30/35 lol  
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So it's not a Jeep... sue me... it's still faster!

Questions? Comments? Concerns? PM Me!

mudb8-:
the only reason I think jim would have for saying to use the currie, is the lack of aftermarket support for correct length/location axle end.

I've got some things happening now to fix those issues on mine..

just raising and shorting the track bar to fit higher isn't the right way to go. the axle end needs to goto the knuckle... I'll have some pics of what I'm doing soon..

I can't stand the haltenberger steering... every bump in the road changes the toe.

you can't get better steering geometry than this... the problem is the relationship of the track bar and drag link.

you can get rid of the bumpsteer easy enough, but to correct the other issues the track bar needs to be loooooooooooonger.




Extending the trackbar out into the knuckle is not the correct thing to do. While this may make the relationship with the draglink better, it will also screw up the vehicle's roll-center.

The vehicle rolls side-to-side on the pivot created by the trackbar. If the middle of the track bar is not in line with the centerline of the vehicle, then weird street handling will occur.

The magazines are full of editors/writers stating that the trackbar and the draglink should be parallel and of the same length. While this may be a practical statement when discussing steering, actual implimentaion never has equal length trackbar and draglink.

The travel-arcs are the correct way to think about the relationship betweeen the trackbar and the draglink.

It is when the travel-arcs are not similar that bump-steer becomes a problem.

The correct length for the trackbar should allow for the correct roll-center. The center-point of the trackbar should be as high as possible, but lower than the same point on the rear trackbar.

The ride-height-angle of the trackbar is what places the trackbar in the same travel-arc as the draglink. Since trackbars and draglinks are not the same length and should not be, the best angle for both is usually flat.

If your draglink is not flat and is longer than the trackbar (typical), the trackbar can actually be flatter than the draglink to cause a greater intersection of travel-arcs. The shorter trackbar at a flatter angle will have a slower rate-of-change arc that will more closely follow the longer draglink rate-of-change arc.

In your case, your draglink is flat. So your trackbar should also be flat and its length should center the center-point on the center-line of the vehicle.

Plot a rate-of-change arc for each bar length and then angle the ride-height trackbar-angle to allow as much intersection of the travel-arcs as possible.

Look at a stock JK's draglink and trackbar setup. Not the same length, but totally flat.

Here is a picture of how AEV/Nth addresses the JK steering/trackbar after a 3" lift. They make both the draglink and the trackbar flat again! The draglink is flipped to the top of the steering arm and the track bar is relocated higher. The bolt below the stabalizer is the old track bar mounting location. The stabalizer is also moved up.

 

i have never heard of anyone doing a triangulated four up front would this work and would it allow me to lose the track bar just askin  
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not only the founder of the white trash mafia im also a member

94 yj over the limit and out of control

Four links without trackbars are a simple enough concept, but have a couple of issues in application. The individual link ends are asked to do double-duty. That is, handle forces from different angles. This requires frame mounts and axle mounts that can handle the forces coming from different directions. That means bigger, beefier, and supported. They often need cross-members built to properly locate the link-ends and the cross-members usually need some sort of triangulation/support.

All this leads to difficulty in packaging it in the vehicle. In the rear, the exhaust and fuel tank can be relocated to make room for the four-link. But in the front, the engine is in the way.

But an even bigger issue would be the steering. If you ran a full hydro-steer then maybe a whole chassis designed from the ground up could support a front four-link.

The manner in which the axle moves with a four-link would be at odds with traditional steering linkages. Front trackbars and steering-box draglinks work very well with each other.

Front three-links with a trackbar are very capable in the offroad environment. RockCrawler is a great example to look at.  

much less axle shift and self steer. the effect is the same as long vs short arms in the radius arc the handling is awesome.


 
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bnrolld:
i have never heard of anyone doing a triangulated four up front would this work and would it allow me to lose the track bar just askin

teraflex,

MAX LCG.  
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Do you know anybody who runs the Max-LCG or ever see or read any write-ups? What steering setup does Tara recommend?


Which draglink TRE is in the bottom picture?

Also, what about trackbars and how they affect roll center?  Trackbars also have an effect on roll-steer in both the front and rear axles individually. Additionally, the combination of both the front and rear trackbars can combine to introduce rear roll-steer. Is that not something that needs to be considered?  

nope, but I had at one time planned on getting it till I discovered what I could do with very little lift not to mention how crappy triangulated links handle on the hwy, tera likes the high steer using their new knuckle and has no provisions for track bar relocation even tho they recommmend it. I haven't seen a write up that has been followed through on, just started on jeep forum a year ago.

the drag link is a factory replacement RHD WJ grand. that's what I have on mine. the collars allow individual adjustment, same as the JK's have.


they definatley have an effect on roll center and steer,

I've always been intrigued by the toy's by troy steering and track bar, which is what I was after using the wj links, then I started messing with it, the longer bar has fewer drawbacks but takes alot of work to put together. I'm also changing around and lengthening the rear track bar since I refuse to loose it.  
****************************************
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and help support the most helpful jeep site on the i-net...