Coils and Shock Combo

I could use some advice for a good coil/shock combo on my 06 Rubicon Unlimited. I am going to be installing Rubicon Express long arms in the front and using a Gen Right 4 link set up in the rear. I have narrowed my choices down to the Rubicon Express 5.5 inch coil springs, or the Skyjacker soft ride 6 inch. I have no idea as to what shocks to buy. I am looking to clear 37's and have a lot of room to flex. The front and rear will be set up with Gen Right tube fenders. Any suggestions on shock/coil combos?  

Nobody willing to take a shot at this? I really could use some advice before I buy.  

6" is too much lift if you're going to use Gen Right's corners and tube fenders. You can run a 4.5" long arm lift and clear 37's just fine in combination with the Gen Right parts.

I also wouldn't mix your front and rear suspension manufacturers. I think that might be asking for the blame game when or if you have any issues.

A rear 4 link might provide great articulation, but they generaly don't provide the best on-road manners.

The absolute best long arm suspension is Nth Degree From AEV-Conversions.com. The best Tube fenders and rear corners are Treks from TNT Customs (GoTreks.com). Their web site doesn't show the quality differences but if you could see them in person, you'll see what I mean. Gen Right's are very nice also, but Treks are just a lttle nicer.

The best shocks are Bilstein 5100's. They are specially valved by both Nth Degree and Rubicon Express for use with a long arm suspension. And there is a difference between long and short arm shocks, beleive it or not.

If you want I can go into great detail about why Nth's suspension is the best long arm suspension.  

ftgiles:
6" is too much lift if you're going to use Gen Right's corners and tube fenders. You can run a 4.5" long arm lift and clear 37's just fine in combination with the Gen Right parts.

I also wouldn't mix your front and rear suspension manufacturers. I think that might be asking for the blame game when or if you have any issues.

A rear 4 link might provide great articulation, but they generaly don't provide the best on-road manners.

The absolute best long arm suspension is Nth Degree From AEV-Conversions.com. The best Tube fenders and rear corners are Treks from TNT Customs (GoTreks.com). Their web site doesn't show the quality differences but if you could see them in person, you'll see what I mean. Gen Right's are very nice also, but Treks are just a lttle nicer.

The best shocks are Bilstein 5100's. They are specially valved by both Nth Degree and Rubicon Express for use with a long arm suspension. And there is a difference between long and short arm shocks, beleive it or not.

If you want I can go into great detail about why Nth's suspension is the best long arm suspension.

yep I wanna read why it's the best!  
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Seeing as you are a guru on this site, I definitely put stock in what you are saying. But, I already have the Gen Right 4 link and I did research before I bought. Both RE and Gen Right said there would be no issues running seperate set ups in the front and rear. I just have to Fab attach points for the RE lower long arms. I would have gone with a 100% RE set up, but got advice from a couple of guys who told me the Gen Right in the rear was a better 4 link. I didn't even think of the 9th set up, but honestly it's too late. I already have both the RE and Gen Right sitting on my garage floor waiting for install when I get back from Iraq. I don't think I would be able to refund them, so I am gonna have to go with what I have. Thanks for the info on the Shocks. I will definently research them. I had looked at RE shocks, but if these are better, I will buy them.

The only thing left is the coils. Any preference? I am going with 5.5 to 6 inches because I wan't lot's of room and area to put bigger tires in the future if I decide to go that way. From what I have read in your other posts, you are not a big fan of large lifts. Why is that? Also mine is an unlimited, so I have the wheelbase to deal with a higher center of gravity. Am I wrong?

Thanks for your advice  

Look at Nth's 4.5" springs. If you want to go higher at a later date, add some spacers.

For a TJ spring, 4.5" is the max before you start to violate the proper spring height ratio (cylindrical ratio). When you violate the proper cylindrical ratio, the spring starts to bulge into an "S" shape instead of compressing evenly. That obviously makes your spring rates a little weird.

As far as "a lower lift" is concerned, the list of things that have to be corrected grows as the lift grows. And some things just can't be compensated for. The benefits of increased lift pale in comparison to the issues that are created.

When you get right down to it, more lift just allows you to have more up travel. And if you're not desert racing, do you really need it. Lift doesn't get you any down travel. That's a function of control arms and shock lengths. And besides, if you have lockers, does it really matter if one wheel is off the ground here and there.

You'll have a much more capable off-road vehicle, and a much more enjoyable on-road vehicle, if you keep it as low as possible. Tall tires are of great benefit, not tall suspensions. And there are lots better ways to get big rubber than a big lift.

Now, about those 37's. They'll fit fine with 4.5" of lift, tube fenders and rear corners. But the rear Dana 44 will probably not last long. At a minimum, get some cromo axles front and rear. If you plan on going larger than 37's, there's no question that you'll need Dana 60's.

What are your thoughts about steering upgrades and front track bar issues? They'll need to be addressed also.  

Great comments, thank you.

As far as my steering goes, I haven't done anything. Part of this thread I left out is that I already had six inches of lift, but went the budget, short arm route before. I had a 4 inch skyjacker with 2 inch coil spacers. I have an adjustable track bar already and am pretty sure it will work fine. With this lift I had the stock lower control arms, but put in adjustable uppers. The lift has worked fine and amazingly worked well on the road. It cruises at 70 MPH with no issues. I have about 12000 miles on the lift and I have noticed it is sagging a bit. It may be because of the heavy duty warn bumpers, or just plain wear. Since I have been stuck over here in Iraq I have bought the following for upgrades:

1. Gen Right 4 Link
2. Rubicon Express front lower long arms
3. Yukon Moly axles (front, with plans for rear very soon)
4. 5.13 gears

I am buying the following in the very near future:

1. Gen Right Tube fenders with either 3.5, or 6 inch flares. I am really not sure what size flare to get. My intent is to run 37x12.50 tires
2. Coils and shocks

What kind of steering mods do you suggest?
Do you think I would need a SYE with the 4.5, or 5.5 lift?

This Jeep has been my daily driver and I want to keep it that way. I wheel a lot. Mostly it's mud, but I do like to play in the rocks when I can find them.

Lastly, I have a great opportunity to rebuild this Jeep from the ground up. If you look in the "sideways section" you will see that's my rig all crumpled from my buddy wrecking it two weeks ago. So the plan is to rebuild it, but make it a very good all around Jeep that has a great look and even better trail manners.

Thanks for your feedback

Joe  

Your Rubicon already has a fixed yoke output. One of the advantages of the Rubi 241OR t-case compared to the 231 found in the non-Rubi Jeeps. But a double-cardan driveshaft can add some strength and smoothness to your setup. The strength comes from not having as much angle on your front u-joint and no angle on your rear u-joint. U-joints become much weaker as their working angle increases.

As far as steering goes, I think you should try to knock off more than one issue at a time. What I mean is, address the crappy TJ brakes at the same time as you address the steering.

As you lift a TJ, the steering becomes very vague. The higher you lift, the worse it gets. Cross-over steering will give you a better road feel than even the stock unlifted setup.

There are lots of ways to get cross-over steering. Most are pretty expensive. But if you combine the steering and brake upgrades together, the price becomes much more reasonable.

The first and least expensive way to get better steering and better brakes is the WJ conversion. The WJ knuckles will bolt onto your TJ inner knuckle. So the conversion is to run the steering linkage, knuckles, rotors, and calipers from a WJ with a modified TJ unit bearing. These parts can all be had from your local junk yard or on Craigslist.

The next choice would be to use a conversion knuckle from Reid Racing. These knuckles use all fullsize Dana 44 outters. These are very beefy, flat top knuckles so you can run a steering arm and use big 12" rotors and calipers. This setup has the additional benefit of using lock-out hubs. That includes big bearings, spaced further apart than a unit bearing for increased strength. So, that could potentially be three upgrades in one (steering, brakes, lock-outs). All the Dana 44 outters can be had from a junk yard or Craigslist also. New rotors cost $30 and new calipers cost $20. So if you find good spindles, hubs and bearings for cheap, this can be an attractive option.

If you just want to concentrate on steering, look into the Tera Flex conversion knuckle. It only replaces the passenger's side knuckle and allows you to run cross-over steering, but no brake upgrade.

I can tell you first hand, that installing 12" rotors with calipers that don't flex (TJ calipers flex really bad) is a huge improvement over stock. In my case, I can say, "wow the brakes are wonderful, and the steering aint too bad either". My steering upgrade definitely became a brake upgrade first and then a steering upgrade in terms of driving enjoyment.  

can you spot anything unusual?






that's a 2.5" lift ready for 36" trxus mt's on my new eaton locks....  
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Oh no, the only shiny place left on your Jeep is going to go away!  

Hey guys, I appreciate all the great advice I received in this thread. You have been awesome, but I must now say this makes no difference anymore. My Jeep is officially dead. My insurance company has deemed it a total loss from the accident and I am losing her now. I tried to get the salvage rights to it, but my finance company won't give me that option. I guess when I get back from Iraq I will be shopping for another TJ and we can start this all over again. On a positive note, I did have my friend get all my after market stuff off the Jeep. So it will sit in the garage with the other stuff waiting for a new host. Thanks again.

Joe  

ftgiles:
Oh no, the only shiny place left on your Jeep is going to go away!

lol, yep, no more rubbing....

finally got my 32 bolt eaton bead locks, 36" iroks are in the works now...  
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looking for how to info to mod your tj?  
check out http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.html
and help support the most helpful jeep site on the i-net...