California V8 Swap?

Hi All,

Long story short, I just bought my first Jeep, put 600 easy miles on it, and now I need a new block .

So, now comes the opportune question, should I do a V8 swap?

I'm thinking about a 02+ Chevy 5.3L... so here are the questions:

1) Has anyone here actually done this, and passed CA emmissions?

2) Did you do it yourself, or have a shop do it?

3) How easy was it to get passed the SMOG referee??

4) Assuming you have one, are you happy with it?

4) What is the difference in driving vs. an original 4.0? Is it just an incremental step up, or is it OMG this is awesome?

5) Are there any problems / regrets?

6) Any issues with Auto Insurance?

7) Any other recommendations?

Let me know what you guys think.  I'm need to decide if I should go that route, or just stick with the 4.0 and make upgrades to it.

I want to go for it, but I need to know how easy/hard it is to get passed by California.

Thanks!!!

Just a newbie with a dead Jeep .  
02 TJ, DEAD 4.0, NV3550, 31's

First things first, before answering all your questions, Do you have $5000 to $7000 laying around? Thats the parts cost on a 5.3L Swap. If you can find a shop to do it, add another $3000 to $5000. I'm right in the middle of collecting the parts for my swap, and it's adding up quick.  
ohhhh!! sooo!!! AWESOME

Yeah, after doing some research, I figured it'll run somewhere close to that.

If I do it, I will be doing most of the work.  I know Novak will do it, but 3 things...
- I really want to do it myself
- The extra $$$ for labor I don't really have
  (especially since I just bought the Jeep)
- And, they're in Utah, so I'd have to get it
  out there.

Honestly, my biggest concern of the build is passing CA emmissions.

I've tried to talk to the state, but they're ambiguous on what exactly they look for.  In fact one of the Technical Advisors kept going on and on about how I should forget the whole thing, and why would I want to do this,... he even suggested I go diesel, since there's no emmission requirements on them.

I'd really like to talk to a referee... but they won't say where I can find one.. it's like they're going out of their way to discouage me.

That's why I'm hoping to find someone who has gone through this, what hoops the referee threw at them, and what they had to do.

97scramin  are you in CA?  If so, I may have a lot of questions for you    .  
02 TJ, DEAD 4.0, NV3550, 31's

I have the same questions as The_Duck - mainly I have an '85 CJ7 that I want to drop an '06 4.0 into.  I tried going the "do-it-yourself" route for the better part of a year, but now I am just ready to fork over $7-8,000 just to get it buttoned up for CA smog requirements.  Does anyone know a shop that can handle this conversion?  My local shop is talking about changing the injectors, fuel rail, throttle body - all on an '06 engine with less than 100 miles before it was pulled.  I know it's an OBDII nightmare otherwise, but I've seen it done but don't know who did it.

Help please!  

No thankfully not in California. From what I have read, you have to go newer than vehicle year with the engine, and have to meet emmisions for that engine year, make & model. I can't help much on the emmission issue. It seems that the newer the engine you are trying to use, the more hoops you have to jump through.  
ohhhh!! sooo!!! AWESOME

You might go to your local emmissions testing facility, and get a copy of their test sheet. Or talk with someone who actually does the testing.  
ohhhh!! sooo!!! AWESOME

Hi Lordregan,

I'm not sure where you are in CA, but if you're near Orange County, in Laguna Beach there's Jeeps R Us (949-497-9183).  Call Larrie and ask him.

If you're near Central CA, call Advanced Adapters.. they should know someone around there.

Hope that helps.  
02 TJ, DEAD 4.0, NV3550, 31's

I know, there's a few things CA requires:
- The Engine has to be the same year or newer
- If the vehicle is a CA vehicle, you must
  put a CA motor in it, not a 49 state federal
  motor
- It must be from the same class, ie. a Jeep is
  considered a "Light Truck", so I need a motor
  from a "Light Truck".  No Vette motor here.
- All of the emmisions equipment needs to be
  there, "unmodified".

It's this last statement that gets me, as it seems this is where they can make you jump through all kinds of hoops.

One guy said they gave him hell because he put a motor in a Jeep with a 4-speed, but the motor used to be an automatic.... therefore, since the 4-speed didn't have an Overdrive, it was missing emmissions.  (I didn't hear how he resolved this)

Another said they got motors from the factory, before they were installed in vehicles... this gave the referee fits, since he couldn't look up a VIN and tell him what was supposed to be there.

And another says even the air intake cannot be modified... so how am I supposed to make it fit under a Jeep hood?

It's all these ambiguities that are going to drive me nuts.  I'd like to actually find out who a referee is in my area, so I can sit down with him and ask him what is true and what isn't true, so I know what's OK.

But, like I said, the CA pencil pushers won't help me on this at all.. they make vague references and act like these guys are part of the witness protection program.

So, please if anyone can help me with these questions, that'd be great... especially anyone who has been through this.

Thanks all,

PS scramin.. when are you starting your build?  
02 TJ, DEAD 4.0, NV3550, 31's

Well, I was started, then had a backhoe lose the main bearings. There went all the Jeep fund!!!! I plan on having it done by July now. Knock on Wood!  
ohhhh!! sooo!!! AWESOME

Good Luck scramin, hope it goes smoothly.

Would you mind keeping me posted on your progress.  If I do do the swap, I coud use any tips / tricks on things you run into.

Also, as a tip/trick for you, if you're using A/C, I've heard that there's a slick way of repositioning the AC compressor to the top of the motor on the conversions, eliminating the need for notching the frame, it somehow uses the 4.3L compressor on the 5.3L motor.

I'll try and find out more details if you want.

Cheers  
02 TJ, DEAD 4.0, NV3550, 31's

Hey Duck,
Find out the details on the top conversion for the AC and I will post as much as I can on my (in process) swap.  I'm pulling the 2.5 from my 97' TJ and putting in a 2000 GMC 5.3L Vortec V8 SFI.  I'm in 1500 for a wrecked truck (can sell a grand worth of parts I hope - doors, bed, interior, trans, rear, etc.)  I have a 1300 dollar order in the works with NOVAK.  All that is left (visually) is the bellhousing, flywheel and clutch assembly.  Going to keep a manual trans, but swapping AX5 for AX15 (200 so far for the AX15 and 200 for the transfer case).  

1. I installed 1995 Firebird LT1 5.7L into 1992 XJ and passed CA smog referee check in Sept 2008.

2. Did it all my self.

3. Smog check referee was really easy.  Only needed to return once.  He required CARB EO number for air intake parts and his PCM code reader couldn't read my engine computer so I loaned them mine on the second round.

4. Really happy with LT1, can't speak for the 5.3L.

5. Difference is major OMG with 5.7L, fuel economy is the same as 4.0L.  

6. AAA would only insure it for liability since the only factory part is the body and interior.

You'll have to use the transmissoin from the donor vehicle or you will not pass referee smog check.  The donor engine has to be same year or newer or they won't even schedule you for a referee inspection.  All after market parts must have CARB EO sticker.  You can use manufacture replacement parts for same engine from different vehicle.  For example, I used air intake elbow from a 1995 Impala with an LT1 instead of the Firebird because it fit better.  You can use the Chrysler charcol canister if you don't get the canister from the donor vehicle.  Make sure you have a "Check Engine" light or you won't pass inspection.  You should fix all error codes before you get it inspected, or at least be able to explain that the code is not smog related.  For example, I have a standing error code for VSS output.  That's because I didn't use that signal to run the Jeep speed-o-meter and I did not hook up cruse control.  Since it's not smog related, it was ok.

The smog check part is easy as long as you don't cut any corners.  Hook up all the smog related equipment that comes with the 5.3L engine including the computer controlled transmission and all will be fine.  The referee isn't out to get you, they will tell you exactly what they want fixed and are there to help you pass.  He didn't even charge me for the inpsection until I passed.  

Guys,
I have the 2.5 out of the jeep and waiting on my 5.3, harness, and computer delivery.  At that time I will send the harness and PCM to Howell for revamping.  Keeping with the subject of the this thread, I do plan to keep the emissions Cal'egal.
In the mean time, what wiring can I remove (sensor plug to PCM and/or PDC) to start cleaning up the harness.  I am not sure what will come back on the 5.3's harness.  I am running JP and GMC PCM's in tandom for the time being as I haven't enough cash spring for new gauge console.  This said I know to leave temp and oil sensing and will be switching these two sensors out with the GM OE's.  I have already removed the wiring for the four injectors but that was obvious.

Any help is appreciated?
Cavebull  

Surprisingly, you'll end up using most if not all of the fuses and relays in your underhood fuse/relay box.  It makes for a cleaner install.  You should beable to use all the factory Jeep gauges if that's what you want.  No changes to fuel level, move the Jeep temp and oil senders to the new engine, and the speed-o-meter should feed off the transfercase.  That leaves the tach.  I found a company that allows you to use any 4,6,8,or 10 cyl tach with any 4,6,8, or 10 cyl engine.  That's how I got my 5.7L LT1 to drive the 1992 XJ factory tach.  Here's a link:
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/Category_ID=287/home_id=59/mode=cat/cat287.htm

You can remove any engine related wire that goes directly to the old PCM because it's strickly engine related.  Everything you cut off that goes through the fire wall or to the underhood fuse box, you should lable what it was for, then cut the excess off.  Then you can use that wire for other things as required.  

You're not correct as far as the gauges are concerned with a TJ engine swap.

In 1996, coupled with the advent of the OBD-II standard, Jeep also introduced a fully electronic gauge cluster. The six gauges have one integrated microprocessor that receives a multiplexed signal from the PCM. This digital signal cannot be generated without the Jeep computer.