Hot Rod Waggy, Wisky Tango Foxtrot?

Why are you guys discussing spring wrap on an axle that is not powered?  I don't think that wrap is an issue on the front of a rear wheel drive vehicle...  
***********************
www.harrysituations.com

I said "let me know when you want to get rid of it" (as in i'll take it off your hands for ya..... like haha)! Not to mention the fact that people buy wrecked cars all the time!!  

DirtyHarry:
Why are you guys discussing spring wrap on an axle that is not powered?  I don't think that wrap is an issue on the front of a rear wheel drive vehicle...



There are tremendous forces put on the springs and u-bolts both during braking and cornering. Increasing the leverage points, the distance between the spindle and the main leaf, puts even more stress on the springs and u-bolts. If the u-bolts and springs are not designed for those increased stresses, then they will flex and could ultimately break. The spring is the only thing locating the axle. If the spring is unable to maintain the axle position, poor and unpredictable handling will result.

Big diameter tires also play a role. That's why it is so incredibly bad to run lift blocks on the front axle. Because big tires usually follow, further increasing the leverage points.

It's not about the axle being powered. It's about all the forces placed on the axle/suspension components. The spring wrap forces are greater on the front axle during hard braking than the rear axle under hard acceleration. The rotational forces are just in the opposite.

And we haven't even talked about the lateral stress on that drop arm if subjected to hard cornering and braking on a rutted surface.  

:
There are tremendous forces put on the springs and u-bolts both during braking and cornering. Increasing the leverage points, the distance between the spindle and the main leaf, puts even more stress on the springs and u-bolts. If the u-bolts and springs are not designed for those increased stresses, then they will flex and could ultimately break. The spring is the only thing locating the axle. If the spring is unable to maintain the axle position, poor and unpredictable handling will result.

Big diameter tires also play a role. That's why it is so incredibly bad to run lift blocks on the front axle. Because big tires usually follow, further increasing the leverage points.



You are right, I shouldn't have said that there is "no wrap", but I do think that it is minimal, particuarly with the small tires on the Wagoneer.

Rear axles with springovers usually because the pinion is trying to climb up the ring gear, and that is not happening here since this isn't a driven axle.  I agree that the springs and u-bolts are subjected to additional forces with the drop beam, but I don't think that the lateral or braking forces that this vehicle is subjected to are doing to cause it to fail (and it fact it hasn't failed).  The shackles are just under tension or compression as the suspension reacts, just like any leaf sprung vehicle.  
***********************
www.harrysituations.com

While building the front axle I took all of your concerns and more into account.  This was not my first rodeo in suspension design and building.  I built it with a margin of safety that far exceeded its use.  All of the materials used were above average, and all brand new, excluding the 10 bolt outers.  

I was originally planning to build a traction bar type strut that ran from the frame to the highest point on the drop plate.  After testing the front end I found it was not necessary.  The front axle easily locked the tires (on a safe vacant side road) and there was NO chattering or weird steering indicating axle wrap, or movement of any kind.  The original plan was to test it, then pull it and make any necessary changes, and paint it at that time.  Everything worked, and I was having a blast driving it, so it stayed.  If it was a little easier to get under I might have squirted some paint on it.  

I did end up selling it to a local dude for $350.  He has plans to fix the body, but he is enjoying driving it as we speak.  

At the end of the day I think most of you haters are just jealous because my turd got in the magazine and yours didn't!!!  

The fact is hot rod waggy questioned the setup himself. He tested in the real world and it worked or not. The fact that it is wrecked at this moment makes that questionable.

Here's what I see wrong here. Why did JP put that picture in there? But then again have you seen what else they are posting pictures of? How about the sperm holes in the hack job FSJ? They seem to be dying to print FSJ's and apparantly will print anything. We all liked the hot rod waggy but who picked out the pictures to print? Somebody send the camera man a can of flat black rustoleom.

He should use it on his lens.  

noflyzone:

Here's what I see wrong here. Why did JP put that picture in there? But then again have you seen what else they are posting pictures of? How about the sperm holes in the hack job FSJ? They seem to be dying to print FSJ's and apparantly will print anything. We all liked the hot rod waggy but who picked out the pictures to print? Somebody send the camera man a can of flat black rustoleom.




Funny that you mention the Fullsize Fury with the sperm holes.  I actually shot the photos of that Jeep and the Hot Rod Waggy.  I agree that they are not the prettiest or most expensive Jeeps out there.  I have shot plenty of photos of TJs with LS1 engines and Dynatrac axles, and I will continue to do features on Jeeps like that.  What I liked about the Fullsize Fury and the Hot Rod Waggy though were that the owners made a unique vehicle for not a lot of money, just a lot of imagination and a little sweat.  

I am just a freelancer so I have no say in what makes it in to Jp, but if you (noflyzone or anyone else) have ideas on what you want to see features on I am interested in hearing them.  
***********************
www.harrysituations.com

I love Brians jeep. I instantly hit Craigs list looking for a pre smog jeepster/commando/waggy to chop and drop the same way.  The front axle design was like a lightening rod for a million great new ideas in my  head. Harry always brings the goods in all his write up.

As far as it beeing safe. Guys have been building homemade solid axles for over 75 years now. Not like he was reinventing the wheel.

I always get a kick of how four wheelers think they need to reinvent the wheel.  
Rock Zombie
USMC

"How about the sperm holes in the hack job FSJ? They seem to be dying to print FSJ's and apparantly will print anything. We all liked the hot rod waggy but who picked out the pictures to print? Somebody send the camera man a can of flat black rustoleom."







you really don't know anything that you didn't read on the internet do you?  

You should try drinking a beer or two and cutting up a rusted out $400 jeep sometime.   It's way more fun than you could possibly ever imagine.   Of course you won't find instructions (with pictures anyway) anywhere on the internet.  

one look at the welds tells me this isn't hot rod hotrodwaggy's first time.  Most of the wonderful things you enjoy bolting on your panty dropper tj were originally created and tested by creative industrious wagoneerer's like hotrodwaggy.  

harry, i think you did an awesome job,  keep it real.  plenty of rustoleom tj's out there for the masses to take pics of.  

holy crap, i just realized those front non-ubolt bolts are single shear.......