Lockers 4 stock TJ axles a yes or no MUD? GILES?

Hi, I have been reading up, and I'm hearing 3 different stories, I just want to hear 1 story, The correct story.

As I have spoke to you guys before Mud, Giles, on lifting my jeep and getting such great info from you guys, I wanted to know the truths of this. Here are the 3 different things I've heard on the subject of locking my stock dana 30, 35. Using Lock Right lockers.

1. I was told that by putting in only one locker, (in the rear) that I would tear up my axle , or brake something, I'm only running 31's, and would top out with 33's max someday, but more likely 32's.  

2. I was told to lock the front only, and that the only time the locker would engage is if I were in 4wd because the locker only operates when power is transferred to the front. I understand that concept, but Layman's thinking makes me want to believe locking the rear would be best in a single locker operation.

3. I was also told, If I lock only ONE axle whether it be front or rear, that it would stress my axles more because one would be free and the other locked???

So I guess I just want to hear from more experienced jeepers like you guys, and on what to do about the locker situation. I can't afford lockers that can be turned on or off, so the lock rights are best for my budget, but are they best for my jeep? and does one go with the rear , the front? None? Both,? I would like to lock them both but can only afford one right now, so I don't know if I should wait till I can buy both (front and rear) or if i could get by with one Front or Rear? and in about 6 weeks buy the second one. I do mainly hill climbs, mud, rough trail terrain, and SNOW SNOW SNOW. I would probably say the #  reason I want Lockers, is for snow, second to that would be rough uneven terrain where wheels are lifted off the ground alot. Thanks guys in advance, also please tell me how to post pics, I want to show you guys my progress so far, , the progress I was able to do , because of the learning I did from you. thanks again  

Well I have to tell you that I feel your pain.  Everyone has their opinions on what works and what doesn't, the best thing to do and the worst thing to do.  I can tell you that selectables are the best way to go, but like you, I can't afford that either.  I can also tell you that more people say the Dana 35 is junk than say it is good. Actually the November issue of JP states that it is a turd on page 26 under "Craptastic Axle"  However you can't afford to replace that either.  So there are several options for you.
1. You could save your money and find either a Dana 44 to put under it, or buy some JK Dana 44's front and rear or at least a rear for around $1,500.00
2. Keep the Dana 35 and either weld the diff, which is not recommended for a daily driver or put in the detroit trutrac.  Either option will still be marginal at best and still in a weak axle.
3.  Save up for a a selectable locker.
You have to decide what's best for you.  Like me you're on a budget and will not have the best built rig, that's the cold hard fact, but if you take it easy you can have fun with what you got.
3.  
____________________
Staff Sergeant
176th Civil Engineering Squadron
Elmendorf AFB, AK

When hill climbing, you'll get the most traction from the rear, because of weight transfer when going up hill. The front will loose traction. So, if only adding one, go for the rear.

The LockRite is super easy to install your self and works fine for the D35 and 31" tires. But, I would not recommend it for a larger tire. The D35 just isn't strong enough and the LockRite is not a very strong locker.

The biggest advantage you'll get with any locker is when one wheel is off the ground.

When both tires on one axle are touching, they usually have about the same traction, because the terrain is the same for both. You don't double your traction with a locker when both tires are touching. I'd say about a 25% increase.

I would not use a "lunch box" locker, like a LockRite, in the front, and depending on the locker, you can feel it in the steering in 2wd. They sense a difference in wheel speed form side to side, and require pressure to lock them up. But the mechanical design of them makes some better than others. You'll never notice a limited slip in the front in 2wd.

I would only use a limited slip or selecatble locker in the front without locking hubs. Both, much more expensive, and both need to be professionally installed. That makes them a 800-1500 dollar proposition.

As far as only locking the rear and not the front, will cause axle stress. Well, that's a wierd thing to say, but is probably true. You'll be exclusively using the rear if the front looses traction. Sounds normal. Like everyday use in 2wd. Silly.  

lol, ftgiles sumed that one up.. having only a locker in the front is usless.. I can prove that one cuz I can lock mine individually.

I can tell ya, cuz I do lots of deep snow/ice... the locker will not help ya there other than get stuck in 4 dug out holes instead of 2! and slide on a side hill into the trees or off in the ditch/ledge simply from a banked corner...
I only use the lockers in the snow on level ground/hills or momentarially in some situations. same goes for a slick trail and alot of situations rock crawling. they don't like to turn either with both ends locked... at all!

in the mudd and fair traction situations ... yeah bring on the locker, mud is found in deep ruts and flat ground ya can't slide sideway on and get in a bigger predicament. lol, well mostly...

I'd prolly go with a rear only true trac.. unless ya spend alot of time with one wheel off the ground, which is preventable by disco'n the front sway bar..

I've had the front locker bound up at times. and it aint fun to drive in 2wd that way. (don't ask)  
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The TrueTrac is a limited slip and a good choice for the front or the rear. But, it is a full carrier and would require professional installation.

It costs about $100 more than a LockRite and then add in installation of about $300. In my opinion I'd go the extra $300 for an Eaton ELocker or stick with the less expensive, self install LockRite.

The TrueTrac would be my less expensive choice for the front and then I'd consider an ELocker up front also.

I have OX Lockers front and rear in my TJ, and can vouch for their excellent performance. Immediate lock and unlock, which is sometimes a problem for other selectable lockers.

But, I think I'm going to include ELockers in my Cherokee build.  

thanks guys, yes I'd love to be able to swap out axles, but it just isn't realistic for me in any sense especially financially. As for wanting a locker for snow, with that I meant On road, up north here in the michigan winters. Most the backroads up here between my house and the 45 mile drive to where my family live, they don't plow, and drifts can reach pretty High. My parents own a fullsize chevy z71 and a full sized chevy conversion van. I have a 2001 Jimmy (4x4), 94 Z71 (4x4), both all stock, and now the jeep i just bought. I live more in the city than they do and have had to swap them my truck for the van many times so my mother could make it to work and back, not do-able in her van. I think this winter I will be handing over my truck keys alot now that I have the jeep, my fiance gets around fine in her jimmy as she works for the post office here (a 7 mile trip) on paved , plowed city streets. I know the jeep is capable in snow, I just want to be sure, I can make it up to visit them ANYTIME, ALL Winter, All Weather as they are seniors and do have some health issues. I know the jeep is a light vehichle and snow sometimes can be tough. I was hoping that a locker would give me more of an edge in those type snow situations. And of course on the trail, I dont' do much Snow Trail travel, just backroad, my wheeling I don't go where I dont' feel confident enough to make it, as I don't have many friends into wheeling, so I don't have much backup. it sounds to me what I'm hearing is a locker up front in the snow is just gonna pull me off course and send the back squirreling around. so now I'm not sure If I should even go with a lockrite, and should save for something selectable.  

realisticly in the snow a locker doesn't help much. I have friends running welded samari's that can't run in the snow with my jeep, one has bigger tires than I *** they never believe me when I tell em I run unlocked and in high range...

selectables are the best choice..  
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It is definitely true about lockers and snowy road travel. When the axle is locked and you get the slightest amount of wheel spin, it gets dicey real quick. With an open diff, one of the tires holds the back end from coming around on ya as easy. I would never run a locker driving down a snowy road.

A locker might help a little if you get stuck or are pulling someone out of a snow bank, but not just driving down the road. They are a really big help when one wheel has traction and one wheel doesn't. When neither wheel has good traction, lockers just dig two holes to get out of instead of one.  

Ok, I am glad I asked, I know there are some locker posts on here somewhere, but I just needed wanted to know in my situations. I appreciate you guys helpin out once again, on a topic i'm sure your sick of . You just saved me some time and money. I thought to myself the same thing about snowy roads, and sliding around, but I was recalling all the incidents where I could've used a locker, all the drifts that would challenge me, and pulling people out. But I guess I wasn't really playing the whole tape through, ( thinking of normal snow covered roads). I just said You guys saved me time and money, lol, but I wanted to say that I will save up for a selectable, so really your making me spend more. sheesh. So where do selectables start at *** wise. I know I won't be buying air lockers, I just want a simple, least expensive unit. Also I have a quick question on lockers. The Jeep Rubicons, that come with lockers, how well do those work/hold up compared to the brands that are out there aftermarket. I am building a simple budget rig, because I do believe I will be buying a JK four door when the time is right, And was wondering if a guys better off buying a rubicon, or using the money he would save buying a base model buying aftermarket lockers, skids, etc. I guess knowing your covered by the factory warranty for quite a while with factory lockers, but what would you do in a case like that?  

the factory lockers work very well and can take gears up to 5.13's

I haven't managed to break on yet, I have destroyed a carrier though from a busted axle...

 
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OUCH !!!.. are any of you guys running a winch? , If so, which one? can I get a decent one for under 400.00? again, my wheeling is not extreme, and since my father sold his tractor, there are alot of times the winch on the quad isn't strong enough for some tasks, For example, He and my younger brother scrap vehichles, and for me to be able to winch a car up onto a basic car hauler, would help all of us out. As well as, my older brother, has an old A frame house, and he removed his standard regular furnace and replaced it with a wood burning furnace and my parents own 60 acres of woods, alot of dead trees, and using a winch to pull down and out dead trees would be another thing it would be used for. And I'm sure it would come in handy as a volunteer firefighter, responding to calls that would have me pulling vehichles out.  

You don't usually hear of people breaking their selectable lockers. Mostly people just complain about them not working correctly.

ARB is a great and strong locker, but needs an air supply. Most of the problems that people have with them is the air lines leaking and that has a lot to do with how they are installed. People who spend more time and money running the air lines have less problems.

An OX locker is way overbuilt caompared to the ARB. Just seeing them on the counter, side by side, is amazing. The OX uses a very durable cable and a little shifter to engage them.

I'm very interested in the ELocker by Eaton. They use an elecrto magnet to engage with the flip of a switch. These are very similar to what comes on a JK Rubicon. I beleive they are OEM on some vehicles but I don't remember (GM??).

Stay away from the Auburn ECTED. It's electronic also and people have had problems with them.

ELocker costs about $600. OX and ARB cost about $850. But, the ARB needs an air source and the OX needs a cable. The cable costs more than $100 each end and the ARB air source for their locker costs about $200, but can be used for front and rear making the cost for ARB and OX very similar.  

In my opinion if your doing just one locker do the front, couple reasons for this,

1)  When you are climbing these hills with all the weight on the rear tires how often is one of those tires not on the ground. In other words if all the weight is in the rear that will be where the traction is.

2)  The opposite is true, if there is no weight on the front the odds are one tire doesn't have traction therefore the front axle isn't doing anything. often times a little tug from ether front tire will allow the rig to just creep right on up the obstacle.

3) On a daly driver you want your automatic locker (if you can't get a selectable one) in the front, as someone with a detroit in the rear i promise you don't want to dive around all day with an automatic locker back there popping and banging. I've had mine throw me over a lane while getting on the highway. plus tire ware is more noticeable. these things would not be a problem with the locker in the front.

Again these are just my thoughts derived from my experiences hope this helps.  

A Detroit Locker would only be acceptable in the front if you have locking hubs!  

Ok, Giles,MUD?? I finally got my Budget boost yesterday. we installed it today, and man does the Jeep look good. I ended up ordering a kit that came with solid 2.25 spacers, rear bump stops, and extended Rubicon Express shocks. I'm only running 31's right now one 16x8 Pro Comp 6089's. I really want to post some pics for you guys, since none of that would have happened if it were'nt for you guys. I have questions now. With this Jeep I plan to go 33's when I wear out the tires I have now (Cooper Discovery S/T's.) And that's it. I don't plan to go any bigger. Now here are my questions. I am running stock gears in my D35/30. I've been looking on ebay, and would like for one of you to check out a particular listing for me. A guy/store etc, has both ring/pinions for the 35 and 30, they are 3.73's. Is that what I should run? this particular ad has them listed for 75.00 each, there's actually two ads, one for the d35, and one for the d30. and the ads are 75.00 with 20.00 shipping, here is the link to the rear

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160269204633&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

the ad says they came out of a jeep with 30,000 miles and are like new. but the ad title states "dana 35 3.73 Jeep TJ rock crawler rear gear set".

Is it ok to buy used gears? With my plans of going to 33's max, what ratio would you recommend while still running 31's for now, but that would power 33's well when i get them? And last but not least, I've been looking at selectables, and I would probably run an ox locker, BUT, will putting in larger gears into a D35 make it more prone to break? or would larger gears make it less prone to break? Same question with the ox locker, as beefy as it sounds would it weaken my D35? or an ox upfront, would that weaken my 30? thanks in advance guys, I hope one of you can give me the run down on gears, (the good/the bad), and on the ox locker (the good/the bad)........ in a case like mine with stock dana35/30's